[Elemen-O-P]

Ok, reviving an old thread here, but I'm replacing my HU very soon and have a couple questions concerning the stock amp.

Does the stock amp have a built in crossover for the front component speakers?

..and do I need to get the PAC unit that emass discussed in another thread, to maintain control of the stock subwoofer? The reason for this question is I believe he mentioned RCA connections in one thread, then mentioned splicing RCAs in another....which is it? :twisted:

just trying to get the horse back in front of the cart with this install and make it as painless as possible. Any help is appreciated.:-D

 

[barvel]

Amp by pass

Ok so I'm mulling around at work and decide to look up

"Honda Element ex, Amplifier By pass"

I found this thing:

http://www.installer.com/item/display_item.php?it=70-1726

It looks like you unplug the speaker connection ont he amp and then plug this in.

I'm hoping so. Have any of you seen this do hiki?8)

 

[soopa element]

Ok, so I've read that if you install a new headunit through the preamp output, then the stock amp gets overloaded and is rendered useless thus no bass through the subwoofer (well it's very low). So I'm wondering if I do this setup, will the subwoofer sound normal again? Since I am bypassing the door speakers, the only thing the stock amp is being fed from the headunit through line-level is the subwoofer output meaning the amp isn't being overloaded.

 

[Elemen-O-P]

Ok, so I've read that if you install a new headunit through the preamp output, then the stock amp gets overloaded and is rendered useless thus no bass through the subwoofer (well it's very low).

..almost... connecting your HU via the pre-amp outputs would mean you connected it through the RCA connections on the HU and are then sending a line-level signal to the amp. This is the CORRECT wiring for the stock amp. However, connecting the HU via a harness, sends a speaker-level signal to the amp..and this represents the situation you mention.

So I'm wondering if I do this setup, will the subwoofer sound normal again? Since I am bypassing the door speakers, the only thing the stock amp is being fed from the headunit through line-level is the subwoofer output meaning the amp isn't being overloaded.

Sounds right to me. Aftermarket HU's tend to already have amps built in, so sending an already amped source to another amp, only gives you twice the volume at half the setting.

aftermarket HU speaker level + stock amp = double volume, or 1+1=2...bad
aftermarket HU line level + stock amp = stock volume, or 0+1=1...good

Bypassing the amp allows the stock speakers to run off the HU's power through a harness and allows the stock sub to run off the stock amp. No double volume, no drown out...just good ole' sound. Another option would be to do a complete RCA splice for all channels on the stock wires and connect them through the pre-amp outputs, creating a happy listening environment.

you'll have to forgive my child-like verbage...I'm no technical expert, this is how my brain interprets it and I feel it is an easy way to explain things without charts, graphs and an electrical engineering degree.

 

[neiljames]

Using Stock Amp with Lilliput ??

Here is my question...

I want to know if I was using a Lillibut touch screen that has FM receiver and will get data from a PC mounted in a custom console, could I wire it into the stock amp using the above diagrams?

I was never clear if there was one amp for all speakers including the sub or if there was a separate amp for the sub.

After reading the above posts I understand that there is one stock amp running all speakers and the Head has no amplification.

I don't believe there is any amplification in the lilliput. Someone shed light on this please.

 

[jojoso]

wiring diagram for stock amp clips

I found some posts earlier but they were closed... so.... I am looking for the stock wireing diagrams for the 2 clips on the factory amp.

I am trying to tap some of the wires for aftermarket amps and so forth.

I think this can be done cause I have done something like this in my bmw.

any help will be greatly welcomed

 

[Blank]

Green Plug (input from dash)
White = Front Left +
Orange = Front Left -
Yellow = Front Right+
Brown = Front Right -

Red = Rear Left +
Green = Rear Left -
Blue = Rear Right +
Black = Rear Right -

Red/White = Sub +
Red/Black = Sub -

Green/Yellow = Remote Turn On


Gray plug (output to speakers/sub)
Green/Black = Front Left +
Green = Front Left -
Green/Yellow = Front Right +
Blue/Yellow = Front Right -

Blue/White = Rear Left +
Blue/Black = Rear Left -
Pink = Rear Right +
Blue/Yellow = Rear Right -

Brown = Voice Coil 1 +
Red = Voice Coil 1 -
Blue = Voice Coil 2 +
Gray/Black = Voice Coil 2 -

Black = Ground
Blue/Orange = 12V+

 

[jojoso]

ok i just used all of this to make some rca's and used the green/ yellow to turn the amps on.

for some strange reason the amp turn on lead burned up both of the amps through the turn on lead.

does anyone know why this might have happened?

has anyone else used this green/yellow wire to turn on thier amp(s)?
Did you have any problems?

thanks

 

[Blank]

ok i just used all of this to make some rca's and used the green/ yellow to turn the amps on.

for some strange reason the amp turn on lead burned up both of the amps through the turn on lead.

does anyone know why this might have happened?

has anyone else used this green/yellow wire to turn on thier amp(s)?
Did you have any problems?

thanks

I've used the green/yellow wire to turn on my amps but I tried splicing RCAs and they gave me weird problems/noise with my amp so I just bought a LOC and it solved the problem. Have you tried using the high-level input on your amps?

I have a new headunit now so I don't bother with any of that anymore.

 

[mercman]

I assume that you are referring to the large 20 pin and the smaller 14 pin connectors that plug into the factory amp. If so, I should be able to help you replace the factory amp without cutting and splicing any wires.

Let me explain, first I don’t have an Element but I do have an Acura TSX which happens to have the same type of premium sound system. The system uses a small Pioneer branded amp with an internal crossover for the front doors and tweeters as well as the sub. A coworker of mine has an Element and has agreed to let me verify the system wiring to be sure that it is the same. I’m sure it is, and Honda also uses this system on the Civic Si and Ex Coupes with premium sound. If everything checks out you can replace the factory amp and not have to cut any wires on your factory Harness. Whatever you do, do not splice the RCA plugs on to your factory wiring or by an amp because the factory premium HU does not have standard line level outputs. Splicing coaxial RCA cables to the HU outputs will cause noise and using the wrong amp will cause more noise.

I have been helping TSXers upgrade their systems for about a year now and my system works perfectly. I have also helped a few Civic owners and the results are the same.

By the way, the factory premium HU is quite a good source unit and provides a good flat output.

jeff

 

[rsfrd]

Jeff,

So what's the solution, then? What kind of output is coming from the HU if not line level? I have been planning to make some cuts to bypass the factory amp for all but the rear speakers so that I only have to install one amp. How would you connect the HU to the aftermarket amp?

Thanks,
Matt

 

[mercman]

First don’t cut any wires. Second, the output of the factory HU is Balanced Differential not coaxial line. I make a connector for the 14 pin harness that comes from the HU but I have to verify the pin out for the Element. I plan to do this in the next few days. Once I have verified the pin out, I can make you a plug in harness for the balanced audio. If you use an amp(s) with balanced Differential inputs you can connect your HU directly to your amps. If you use a regular car audio amp you will need an interface converter to go from balanced line to coaxial line. If you try to connect the HU outs to coaxial cable you will get noise. You will get more noise and kill your imaging if you use an amp without differential inputs.

The following amps work directly with the factory premium HU

All the current JL audio
The current Rockford F/G Punch and Power Series
The current Kicker ZX multi-channel amps.

I will also verify the speaker harness pin out to see if uses the same pin out as the other systems with the pioneer amp. If it so, you can buy a harness for that also.

If any one has the audio system pin outs (pin numbers) from the factory manual it would be very helpful.

jeff

 

[rsfrd]

What kind of an interface converter would you suggest? I may end up cutting my harness anyway, because I want to continue to use the factory amp for the rear speakers.

 

[rsfrd]

Additionally, the amp I'll be using has speaker level inputs—would those suffice?

 

[Blank]

Additionally, the amp I'll be using has speaker level inputs—would those suffice?

Not really. The voltage the HU sends out is very low. You'll have to set the gain almost at 3/4 to get to normal listening levels out of your speaker. Also, when I used a line-out converter with the amp, I'd have to set it at MAX to get sound. This was without a gain level adjuster on the LOC, but I bought a 4-Channel one from Walmart that had gains adjustment and it it helped a bit, but it sounded a bit, how would I say, crappy compared to an aftermarket HU preouts.

Also, if you purchase an aftermarket HU, you could use the HU's amp to power the rear speakers (with clean power) and use the amp to power the front/subs. This wold be a better set up. Trust me, I've done everything and ended up with getting a HU with preouts and that made my life that much easier.

 

[rsfrd]

Thanks for the tips. I'd like ideally to stick with the stock HU just for ease of use. I like the aux in and volume controls on the steering wheel (which I know can both be modded on with other aftermarket products, but you've got to draw the line somewhere...)

Looks like this number will be the key:
http://www.peripheralelectronics.co...rodDetail.asp?strProductID=572&strCategory=Premium Audio Interfacing&strSearch=

My local car audio shop said this will convert the differential-balanced signal to a single-ended signal so that I can run RCAs to my aftermarket amp (which is not fancy enough to do differential-balanced directly).

 

[mercman]

I don’t see in the information where it will take a balanced differential signal input, it might but I don’t see it). Another problem is the HU actual has five channels (I will verify this tomorrow weather permitting) and that device only supports four.

The HU output voltage is about +- 4 volts (think 8 volts) with a zero dB test CD on the other similar Honda/pioneer systems I have tested. I will have to verify this by actually testing the Element HU (I hope to this weekend). In any case, you can’t use the speaker level inputs on your amp. Your best bet is to go with an amp with the correct inputs because keeping the signals differential all the way to the amp prevents noise pick up.

I’m working on an electronic (active) interface converter for the premium system. It was to be a four channel unit but I might build a fifth channel to support the Element’s system. The goal is to plug into the factory amp connector and have your RCAs already to go to any amp you like.

You did say that you were interested in amping only the fronts and using the factory amp for the rears. This might not be very satisfying because of the big increase in SQ for the front. I don’t run the rear door speakers (a lot of people don’t) but again it is all personal tastes.

jeff

 

[rsfrd]

I don't see that information on their site, either, but I had a conversation with the guy at the car audio shop about it. He knew what I was talking about and said this LOC would do it. I found it mentioned on a few other boards in the same context, as well.

I would go with an amp that can handle the signal if they weren't all twice as much as I wanted to spend, unfortunately. Trying to stick to a budget...

 

[GoneBiking]

Honda Element Stereo Wiring Diagram

For all those who were pissed off like I was when installing an aftermarket stereo (well myself a Carputer) and not knowing that my vehicle had a built in Amp or how to correctly wire it. The following diagrams are from an Official 2007 Honda Element service manual to save you ALOT of headache. I sure could of used this info 2 weeks ago. Forget the rest of the wiring diagrams you see out there this is IT!

 

[GoneBiking]

Further diagrams

If anyone needs further diagrams or assistance let me know...this thing has all the circuit digrams and wiring for the XM receiver also plus its a service manual so you name it and its in there. Damn thing is bigger then my phone book.