Ummmm... nah I don't think so. I did that when I was new and had no other choice but not now. Look at the 3rd pic in post #4, granted this is just one case out of ??? but the culprit was the 4th one in. It is more likely to be one of the first but you never know. Way I see it is if one of the wafers has worn out then another is soon to follow. If you're gonna go to all that trouble, take 5 minutes and replace em all. Would you drive to the store for one beer or buy a 6-pack since you're already there?

Pierre

 

Thanks Locksmith for the great instructions/photos etc. This is one of several
issues I'm having with my 2003 Element EX (and why I found this site!). TODAY
I went to my local Honda dealer to see if those U shaped metal pieces were
available from Honda. They said that for the 2003 they are no longer available
but a complete lock is available for about $40. (It would be another different
key to boot). I'll check with a local locksmith later on but wanted to time/date
this info so others won't waste the time with their Honda dealer on it again for
a 2003. Thanks!

 

Did Honda provide the lock that fit your key? I'm a little confused as I get
conflicting info from different sources. Thanks!

 

That cracks me up, no longer available for the 03's. They're all the same. If you have no luck finding them locally you can get them from Majestic Honda. The tumblers are sold separately in bags of 10, part #'s 20766 through 20771. That would be plenty to service one persons lock for quite a while. It probably wouldn't hurt to get a bag of springs too, #20765. When those little boogers go flying you need some good eyes and a lot of patience. So, for $23.27 + shipping you can fix it yourself.

Oddly enough, the only way I found the key cylinder kit was by choosing an '03 but like I said they're all the same.

Pierre

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com...ment&catcgry2=2003&catcgry3=5DR+EX+2WD&catcgry4=KA4AT&catcgry5=KEY+CYLINDER+KIT

 

That cracks me up, no longer available for the 03's. They're all the same. If you have no luck finding them locally you can get them from Majestic Honda. The tumblers are sold separately in bags of 10, part #'s 20766 through 20771. That would be plenty to service one persons lock for quite a while. It probably wouldn't hurt to get a bag of springs too, #20765. When those little boogers go flying you need some good eyes and a lot of patience. So, for $23.27 + shipping you can fix it yourself.

Oddly enough, the only way I found the key cylinder kit was by choosing an '03 but like I said they're all the same.

Pierre

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com...ment&catcgry2=2003&catcgry3=5DR+EX+2WD&catcgry4=KA4AT&catcgry5=KEY+CYLINDER+KIT

Pierre have you actually ordered these from Majestic?

If you look at the diagram it shows the old syle tumblers....not the new style tumblers. I checked out an 88 Civic on majestics site and came up with same part numbers. Majestic has made a mistake on the Element listing.

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com...y1=Civic&catcgry2=1988&catcgry3=4DR+DX&catcgry4=KL4AT&catcgry5=KEY+CYLINDER+KIT

 

Hey good eye. No I haven't ordered them, I've got my own pinning kit. I went through some other Honda's that use the 4-track key and couldn't find any other part #'s. I'm tempted to call em on Monday and see if they would sell the right ones.

Pierre

 

Thanks guys! So Honda wasn't being up front with me....shame on them.

 

Could be, it's a lot easier to change a lock than to repair it.

 

I'm mechanically inclined but have never messed with insides of locks. All those
little springs inside (and my declining eyesight) make me think replacement might be the way to go. I'm still researching the options but Honda will sell the lock and a key that is different from the rest of my locks for $40 and a local locksmith will fit the new lock to my key for $37...so that's $77 without installing it! Thus far I've gotten by with powdered graphite on the key and careful wiggling. I'll keep that up as long as I can (especially since reading that some
have replaced their locks multiple times!). Cudos to all those that help with
this invaluable site!

 

Thanks V Much!

 

removing door lock

Locksmith, thanks for the great instructions and pictures. It all went like clockwork. I found that slipping a straight awl under the bottom of the clip on the lock and then wiggling it under the clip allows the lock to come free. The clip stayed in place without falling out! Couldn't figure out where it had gone until I looked at the lock. I have had a problem putting the 10mm bolt back which holds the the bracket and the handle assembley on. This is the hidden bolt closest to the latch side of the door. I have an extension on the 10mm socket but I can't get the bolt started, Any tricks? Thanks again for the help

 

If you're talking about this one...

yeah... it can be tricky. Ummm...... did you try to get it started with your fingers first? The biggest problem is getting the handle and the bracket lined up with the hole all at the same time. You could also try putting a bit of black tape around the head of the bolt to help keep it lined up in the socket.

BTW, what happened with the locksmith. Did they replace with new or just remove/repair the bad ones.

Pierre

 

lock repair

I'll have to find a smaller hand to start that bolt. I took out the first wafer, it was too far gone. In the second pair I was able to smooth out the burrs. The third pair was missing a wafer! A few years ago I had the lock replaced on warantee so I guess who ever keyed the lock screwed up. I will take it up with the dealer. Thanks again.

 

Locksmith, thanks for this excellent description. I had to do this on my 2003 element tonight. I do not think I could have done this without your visual guide. My main problem is that my key is stuck in the lock, so I cannot pull the lock through from the inside. What should I do? I was thinking of cutting the key to enable me to pull the lock through the inside. Then maybe I could disassemble the lock and remove the broken key.
-Ricky

 

Is the door handle assy still attached to the door? If so try to remove the tiny c-clip that holds the lock together (see pic). The c-clip, cam and spring will probably fall down into the door. At that point you should be able to separate all the pieces and take the handle assy off (with the key and innards of the lock still stuck). Take that somewhere safe to try to remove the key, the springs and wafers will go flying if you're not careful. And take pictures, I've noticed others with the same problem.

Let me know if that helps,
Pierre

 

Here's how it's supposed to be. I imagine you could make that pin out of a few different things, maybe a sewing needle. Whatever you use it should be stainless steel or chrome plated. If that's not possible, coat it with grease to keep it from rusting.

Pierre

 

Hey Locksmith.

I've 2 problems that might give me a chance to do this twice

My passanger lock is startiing to stick a bit, so I'll try some WD40 and see if that fixes it.

My driver's door appears to have a new lock installed with completely different key from the rest of the car.

My question is: Can I remove the passanger lock and driver's lock, note the wafer numbers from the passanger lock, and replace the wafers in the driver's lock to match the passanger lock? Effectively rekeying by number. Sounds like it might take a half a day or so to do both, but it would be a fun puzzle day for sure!

How's the 200k coming?

 

Absolutely, there's even a chance that the wafers on the drivers side (even though it's keyed differently) might be able to be re-arranged to match. It's a long shot but it could happen. If you're gonna go to all that trouble I'd rather see you replace all the wafers and be done with it. If you don't mind your pass door panel being off for a week or so, take that one out first, find out what numbers you need and I'll USPS 'em to you for $20. I've already done that for a guy out in LA (jets022) and it worked like a charm.

The 200k is right around the corner. My next oil change actually.

cheers
Pierre

 

Excellent Pierre! 200k is quite a feat

I'm in agreement, might as well swap out everything since it's such a labor intensive preparation project.

Thanks for the wafer shipping option. I'll definitely take you up on that when I'm ready to pull the trigger.

I'm still a couple weeks out since I have a couple other mod's in progress I need to finish.

Kinda looking forward to really tearing into the E. I love the inner workings of doors and locks

Larkin

 

I was the one that got the wafer thumbers from Pierre. I'm very grateful for his help. I spent almost two hours calling local locksmiths and found only one that would do it for $20 per cylinder. The other had higher prices or kept asking me if I was a locksmith and why I wanted those wafers. Do the repair asap, it is a good feeling to be able to unlock any door without trying several times.

 

Sorry for not posting the results of my lock problem. Pierre, thank you for all of the help and information that you put on this site. I had the same problem as everybody else. It was very difficult finding a locksmith that would sell me the wafers or even fix the lock for that matter. I ended up finding a place in Houston that replaced the wafers for me for $20. Not a bad price, I thought. Anyways, I have placed the link for the locksmith that fixed my lock for me in hopes that anyone in the Houston area that is having the door lock problem will have a much easier time getting the wafers replaced.
Cheers.

http://www.bllockandsafe.com/

....I almost forgot to add. I used a thick sewing needle to replace the lost pin. It did not work as planned because the lock cover does not swing in and out like it is supposed to. The cover just stays in the open position. Hopefully dirt and grime will not become a problem. I will keep this lock lubed with wd40 regularly now.

 

Hey Locksmith,

So the guy I bought my E off back in Nov told me about this site for all sorts of help and I've browsed the mod section just to pass the time but never joined or posted, that is until now haha.

The instructions are great, but I'm too nervous for a DIY job, that and some of this stuff is just over my head. From what I've read/understand if I don't replace the wafers individually I'll have to replace the entire key system. Which would include ignition and all 3 locks (if I wanted 1 key for connivance... which I do haha). If I didn't replace all 3 I would have 1 key for the drivers side lock (which is what's currently muffed up on my E) and another key for the other door, hatch, and ignition. This would also be very expensive compared to replacing the wafers.

Is that correct?

If so, how would I explain to my mechanic for him to replace the individual wafers, as opposed to replacing all of it? (Just in case he did not understand where I was coming from)

Many Thanks,
KBed

 

The mechanic will probably have a personal preference what is easiest. I think it depends most on experience. Sometimes, I am anal to a fault and want to find the exact reason something happened and not just replace a part because the book says so.

Rebuilding one lock might be more difficult but have very little parts involved. Replacing all the locks has less potential problems but a lot more parts and labor. Out of curiosity I checked hondaautomotiveparts.com and you can get the lock set for $225. If your mechanic can not get the wafers but is still willing to try to rebuild it let me know and I can get them to you.

cheers
Pierre

 

I fear you may have a double whammy. Pushing a button on a remote will be the same thing as pushing a button on the door, just from far away. Is the drivers door the only one that's intermittent? If it's the only one with a problem I would say you also have an actuator problem. However, fixing the power locks and installing remote entry may end up being the easier way out.

 

Sorry, Locksmith, I have to admit I'm a bonehead.
I didn't realize that you need to pull the door handle to use the power locks when the door is open. I guess my power lock is working fine. Goes to show you that we Element owners have good taste in cars, but not all of us are so smart...
I guess it's just the driver's side door key/lock which is the problem. Are you still sending out replacement wafers for the DIY lock repair? Or do you recommend the switch to keyless entry?

 

We all have our moments. :grin:

Yes I can still send them and I recommend both. Remotes are schweet but you should always have a backup when technology fails.

 

Ok... so... I've have quite a few more problems on these 4 track ignitions and I've had about as much as I can take. These are turning out to be the most un-repairable locks in existence. I am officially recanting this thread and un-advising anyone to even bother trying to repair their locks. Replace with new only! From now on this is for informational purposes only, do not try this at home. To anyone who has wasted their time and effort removing, repairing and replacing these locks under my advice, I am truly sorry. These locks are crap and when they get worn out there's not much you can do about it.

Seriously, what I've learned is that when the original wafers have gotten to the point of not lining up on the key, so has the channel that held that wafer in place. Meaning that even if you put new wafers in the lock the hole they go in is bigger than it used to be so the brand new wafer is sloppy as hell from the get go. Every time I have tried to save someone some money and repair them I have only heard from them a few weeks or months later with the same problem. This wouldn't be so bad except for the price of new Honda locks. It's insane! I can only hope that as the demand begins to rise, so will the supply and the price will go down.

The most recent example is a 03 civic that I repaired on Oct 28th and I got a call from them today that they were stranded again, key wouldn't turn in ignition. List price for the ignition lock is $388.18... seriously?!? And if they want to maintain one key for all they're looking at $477.05 for the complete lock set. All the while I'm making keys for a '73 Lincoln Continental that has the original locks that all work perfectly and even if I had to replace them they'd cost ten or twenty bucks each... ugh.

I am not giving up on my Honda, it is still the greatest car I have every owned. These locks... not so much.

 

A valiant effort

I am officially recanting this thread and un-advising anyone to even bother trying to repair their locks. Replace with new only! To anyone who has wasted their time and effort removing, repairing and replacing these locks under my advice, I am truly sorry. These locks are crap and when they get worn out there's not much you can do about it.

It was a valiant effort, Pierre!

Very brave of you, and we really appreciated the insights of somebody in the trade.

Seems pretty obvious that somebody in the bean-counting department figured out that since most people are using remotes, the lock tumblers don't have to survive as many use-cycles - so we can save 3 cents per car by using crappier parts! Soichiro wept.

 

Fixed my ignition switch by removing a few wafers

We've had three locks go bad on our 2003 Honda Element, first the two door locks and now the ignition. Our Honda dealer wants over $600 to replace just the ignition lock. My strategy is to add the electronic remote entry for the doors as previously suggested here (around $120, looks easy to install) and remove the front wafers from that ignition lock. (That might void some theft insurance policies.)

I successfully pulled the ignition lock assembly and handed it over to a locksmith who did the deed for $20. I might have removed the wafers myself, except I wasn't quite sure how to open it. First step is to punch a pin through a shaft, but without sufficient clearance behind for the pin to come fully through. Locksmith said he just punched the pin as far as he could, then ripped the pin out of there with a pair of pliers. From that point on it should be about the same as dealing with the door locks.

Only tools I needed were some phillips screwdrivers and a lot of nerve.

The bottom piece of plastic around the steering column is held in place by three phillips screws up from below, the machine screw to the rear is tricky to get started when reassembling. The top piece of plastic just snaps off.

Once the plastic around the steering column is removed, the black plastic housing around the ignition keyhole is exposed. There are five phillips screws to remove from that housing, one large screw and four same sized small screws.

Turn the steering wheel to provide nearly direct access to remove the large phillips screw that is easily seen from the driving position.

Remove two small phillips screws from lower front of the black plastic housing.

Remove the philips screw that enters from the direction of the fuel guage, need a short screwdriver less than 3.5" long for this.

Unplug the wiring harness from the two green connectors toward the rear, you must first push in on the tab on one side of the connector to release it. (Connectors are keyed differently, there's only one way to put them back together.) Push the wiring aside to remove a phillips screw from underneath the black plastic housing, you will need to crawl in there and look up from a position near the accelerator pedal to see this one.

Slide the black plastic piece free out along the direction that the key would enter.

Slide out a second black plastic piece, leave it dangling by the two wires. Try not to lose the small metal roller pin that (I believe) goes into a round hole in the lower front part of the metal piece now exposed and holds the lock assembly in place. I didn't notice it at first, and it fell out on my shoes when I inspected the second black plastic piece. The roller pin is probably there only to retain the lock core during assembly, it's a very loose fit. I was not able to unplug the two wire connector from this second black plastic piece, bunged up the connector some by trying.

Pull the lock core straight out, being careful not to lose the fairly large spring at the far end that is helping you pull it out. From there, I took the lock core to be serviced by a locksmith.

Other than locks and stress cracks in windshields, we've had fairly good luck with the Element. Just be mindful of clearance, a high rock can easily do a couple thousand Honda dealer dollars of damage to all that sheet metal and plastic under there.

Thanks to Locksmith for getting this thread going with such informative posts. I suspect his procedure will work fine if any bad wafers are simply removed rather than replaced.