[woosterpuss]

holy cow!!!!!
that is fantastic!!!
i really want to do this!!!
parts are not too bad.
can anyone guess as to the labor costs for those of us who do not know how to work on a car or have friends that do trannies??

 

[Sheniferous]

this is awesome! now let's figure out how to make my AT into a 6 speed....

 

[calvin13]

this is awesome! now let's figure out how to make my AT into a 6 speed....

Let's start with a 5 speed. One step at a time. That would also need computer changes.

 

[tessa]

Okay, now this mod I want.
I love the MT in my ELEMENT, but it most assuredly would benefit from a 6th gear. I've got to find a transmission expert I can get friendly with.;-)

 

[Crunch]

I've only had my E for 3 weeks and a day now and other than the stereo sounding like crap, no 6th is my pet peev since it could actually use it. A couple hundred $ and a weekend of work? I'm all over this! Now the next logical question is, is your box an AWD box or a 2wd? Or does it matter? I can't study it in the manual yet as my manual is "in the mail" from Helm. (7-10 business days!!) Excellent mod BTW! Hey, if this is the same as the RSX, TSX and such, does anyone make an LSD for the front diff for it? (They MUST!) If I'm already dropping the box and taking it apart to do this...

 

[rhurt]

Should work for AWD too.

The coolest part is that as far as I can tell, this will work for the 4WD Element too. I think this would make it the only 4WD 6 speed Honda. All changes happen before the output to the transfer case. Who wants to try with their 4WD E?

 

[rhurt]

What about the reverse gear lockout?
The 6th gear will be located where the reverse gear is currently on the shift pattern...correct?
Will the shifter now come in contact with the console trim ring when shifting to reverse?
Are there any cons to this mod whatsoever?
Bravo for having the stones to take this on!
It is one bad ass mod!

This is the only con to the mod (and warranty). Good pickup. 6th gear is now in the place of reverse. Reverse is moved one place to the right (still down). If I left the reverse lockout in place as designed, it would actually block 6th, so I took it out. Currently I have no reverse lockout. However, 1) It would be very hard to mistakenly put the transmission in reverse rather the 6th at highway speeds, and 2) based on the location in the shift pattern (straight pull from 5 to 6) you really have to deliberately try to put it in reverse.

If you require a reverse lockout (and I may do this too), you could take the shift arm assembly from a 6spd honda/acura (TSX, RSX-S, 06 Civic Si) and make it switch activated - always blocks reverse until you push a button.

 

[biocube]

HOLY COW!!

ok, where are you located? where did you get the parts? how many hours did it take to do it? do you think a good honda/acura tranny shop could do the mod?

I'd love to do this, but don't have the skills, i'm afraid...but maybe i could lasso a friend...

 

[MikeQBF]

Outstanding, outstanding engineering research. My hat is off to you. As serious performance/mechanical mods go, it is definitely one of the most elegant I have seen. You get an A+ for the inspiration that led you in this direction, and the realization that Honda uses the same tooling across the brand. I have been inside many, many transmissions, and for you to realize that the gear position was simply occupied by spacers has me in awe.

Keep us posted on the mpg and drivability results. My primary concern is that with that (relatively) low gearing, you might have moved the final drive out of the torque "sweet spot", and will find yourself spending a lot of time shifting 5->6 & 6->5 with changes in road grade. But - heck - even if you do, just the level cruising ability should make a difference.

This mod is now on my calendar. I am very impatiently awaiting your observations!

 

[rhurt]

HOLY COW!!

ok, where are you located? where did you get the parts? how many hours did it take to do it? do you think a good honda/acura tranny shop could do the mod?

I'd love to do this, but don't have the skills, i'm afraid...but maybe i could lasso a friend...

I'm in FL. It took a full two days of work, although I'm sure that it would be faster the second time. The bulk of the work obviously is getting the tranny out and back in. Actually modifying the tranny itself only took about an hour. If I can do it, any tranny shop could easily do it - you just have to talk them into it. Who knows they actually might get excited about it.

 

[rhurt]

Outstanding, outstanding engineering research. My hat is off to you. As serious performance/mechanical mods go, it is definitely one of the most elegant I have seen. You get an A+ for the inspiration that led you in this direction, and the realization that Honda uses the same tooling across the brand. I have been inside many, many transmissions, and for you to realize that the gear position was simply occupied by spacers has me in awe.

Keep us posted on the mpg and drivability results. My primary concern is that with that (relatively) low gearing, you might have moved the final drive out of the torque "sweet spot", and will find yourself spending a lot of time shifting 5->6 & 6->5 with changes in road grade. But - heck - even if you do, just the level cruising ability should make a difference.

MikeQBF, thank you. But you give me too much credit. This mod was suggested by Honda Tuning magazine. Although they didn't really give any details and they did it on an 02 Civic Si. I just applied the thinking to the E.

And as for torque, she's got plenty. Try accelerating from 1400 rpm in 5th and you'll see what I mean. Its no rocket, but you don't need to downshift if you don't want to. Of course thats why there are 6 gears now. Above 2000 rpm which is now 50 mph (it would be 40 in 5th gear) there is plenty of power.

 

[bluecivic107]

Parts List Request Please!!!

As others have already said, GREAT Contribution!!!!

Please provide the parts list and some instructions on the how to, as I'm eager to attempt this mod...

 

[PirateSolo]

This sounds awesome. I would love to have a 6speed4wd (would that not fit under the Element decal ever so nicely).
My concern is running the 6th gear under 2900 rpm. Would'nt the continual use of 5th gear below 50 mph do wear on the engine? And is this not essentially what is happening with 6th gear at 70 mph? Don't get me wrong, I want this if it works. I'm 46,000 miles into a 100,000 warrenty. Screw the warrenty. I did the math. I drive 60 miles a day. If it cost me $1,000 I could have this thing pay for itself the first year depending on what kind of Highway gas milage your getting. What is your current gas milage and with what exterrior accessories? (roof rack, side steps, burush gaurds, ec)
Also is it not possible to move reverse to the other side of first gear or is that just impractable?
Cheers to ya for the nice job! Way to think inside the box.

 

[rhurt]

This sounds awesome. I would love to have a 6speed4wd (would that not fit under the Element decal ever so nicely).
My concern is running the 6th gear under 2900 rpm. Would'nt the continual use of 5th gear below 50 mph do wear on the engine?
If it cost me $1,000 I could have this thing pay for itself the first year depending on what kind of Highway gas milage your getting. Also is it not possible to move reverse to the other side of first gear or is that just impractable?
Cheers to ya for the nice job! Way to think inside the box.

I do not have any concerns about engine wear. In fact it is the opposite. Running the engine at a lower rpm will decrease engine wear. Also this does not change the use of 5th gear, you only shift into 6th when you need it. Another point is that I routinely use 5th below 50 mph. The engine is more than happy to be in 5th as long as the revs are above 1700-1800, which corresponds to 35-37mph. There is no need to wait unil 50mph to get into 5th. And Finally moving the position of reverse to the other side of 1st sounds interesting, but probably is not possible due to shift arm clearances. It may be, but would require a custom reverse shift arm, and then some. It would not be "bolt on".

 

[1fastvx]

Where does this put the RPM's when cruising at 80mph in sixth?

PS...Nice work!

John

 

[kmac17]

I do not have any concerns about engine wear. In fact it is the opposite. Running the engine at a lower rpm will decrease engine wear. Also this does not change the use of 5th gear, you only shift into 6th when you need it. Another point is that I routinely use 5th below 50 mph. The engine is more than happy to be in 5th as long as the revs are above 1700-1800, which corresponds to 35-37mph.

I think the concern with the higher gearing is "bogging" the engine. This is when you are in a high gear and lower speed and you floor the gas and nothing happens for a while. The engine tries to get going, but doens't have the torque to do the job. In an automatic the tranny would kick down to a lower gear, or the torque converter would slip some to allow a higher engine rpm. In a manual tranny, it just bogs down and doesn't go anywhere for a while. When just cruising using the highest possible gear will help your mpg. but when needing to accellerate, a downshift is usually the best way to accomplish that (and usually the funner way too).

 

[rhurt]

Where does this put the RPM's when cruising at 80mph in sixth?

PS...Nice work!

John

At 80 mph in 6th the revs are about 3200. (down from 4000 rpm)

 

[1fastvx]

Just where they should be from the factory!! Some days when I am cruising to work on the highway in my E at 80mph I think I am in my Civic with my swap. It must also make the cabin inside a bit quiter also.

At 80 mph in 6th the revs are about 3200. (down from 4000 rpm)

 

[bluecivic107]

Extra Synchro

Looked at the pics for the element lay-shaft. Why is there an extra syncro on the area where the 6th gear would be? Did HONDA really plan on making a 6th gear but scrapped the idea?

Also, Where's the parts list? I'm ready to order these parts and DO THIS LIKE BRUTIS!!! I'll even document everything and post a How to....

 

[rhurt]

Looked at the pics for the element lay-shaft. Why is there an extra syncro on the area where the 6th gear would be? Did HONDA really plan on making a 6th gear but scrapped the idea?

Also, Where's the parts list? I'm ready to order these parts and DO THIS LIKE BRUTIS!!! I'll even document everything and post a How to....

I don't get it either but the existing 5th gear hub has synchros on both sides. The third photo posted is the untouched countershaft before the swap. The 6th gear synchro is there just waiting for a gear. My guess is that this shaft is rigidly connected to the reverse select lever. When this shaft is up, 5th is selected. When it is down reverse is selected, and the unused synchro must be there because this hub moves to the blank space while the car is in reverse.