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bluecivic107 said:
Parts are ordered...Honda Element Manual in hand...just need the TSX Manual...

Can someone scan the TSX Manual pages that involves the reassembly of the Mainshaft and Countershaft...

I will be performing this mod as soon as parts come in...
THANKS in advance!!!
Where in NJ do you live? If you want help and I am not away I'd be more than happy to bring tools and give you a hand if you wanted it.

Let me know.



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expensive!!!

i stopped by a honda shop in huntington beach this morning, not a true tuner shop, but halfway, and they were interested in the mod, especially when i told them about the civic.

but they said that it would be 12-15 billed hours at $80, so a grand of labor. and $200 of self-supplied parts. ouch!

am i dreaming to think i could find someone to do it for $500?
 

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biocube said:
expensive!!!

i stopped by a honda shop in huntington beach this morning, not a true tuner shop, but halfway, and they were interested in the mod, especially when i told them about the civic.

but they said that it would be 12-15 billed hours at $80, so a grand of labor. and $200 of self-supplied parts. ouch!

am i dreaming to think i could find someone to do it for $500?

A dealer is going to go by book time for the job....will the dealer warranty the work or are you on your own if they did it?

I know we wouldnt touch it here at my dealer.



Your best bet may be a dedicated tranny repair shop.
 

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biocube said:
expensive!!!

i stopped by a honda shop in huntington beach this morning, not a true tuner shop, but halfway, and they were interested in the mod, especially when i told them about the civic.

but they said that it would be 12-15 billed hours at $80, so a grand of labor. and $200 of self-supplied parts. ouch!

am i dreaming to think i could find someone to do it for $500?
No, not expensive, and yes, you're dreaming if you think somebody's going to take it on for $500. $800-1000 for the work is right in the ballpark.

Think about it in terms of a factory option if it existed. Even though we now all know that our M/T was designed to be a 6-speed from the start, what do you think Honda would ask for it as an option? Likely $800-1000, roughly the same as the "upgrade" to A/T.
 

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has anyone looked into changing the 4AT into the 5AT??
 

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Thank you!!!

spdrcr5 said:
Where in NJ do you live? If you want help and I am not away I'd be more than happy to bring tools and give you a hand if you wanted it.

Let me know.

spdrcr5 I live in Morristown NJ...Thank you for your offer, but I think I'll be fine...I will be performing this at my friends (VW A-Tech) house in Nutely, NJ who has a hydraulic press with wheel bearing puller...I think we can figure things out...
 

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finding a tranny guy

Here is an idea...

Prowl around your local Hnada dealer. Figure out which mechanic does trannies and make him an offer to do a cash job on the side. MOre often than not these guys will take the job especially if you can pull and deliver a tranny.

You might be surprised. A friend of mine worked at a chevy dealer and made a ton of cash on the side doing mods and the like out of his garage for cash.

HUTMO
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Honda Connections

Does anyone have any contacts at Honda? I would like to talk to them about this mod. I think that this should be a factory option at a minimum - if not standard. Maybe we can make this happen for the 08's at least - especially because these are off-the-shelf parts.
 

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Nice work

Wow, nice job on the tranny. Maybe someday I'll have it done to my 4WD, but I'm not quite brave enough to do it myself.
 

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rhurt said:
Does anyone have any contacts at Honda? I would like to talk to them about this mod. I think that this should be a factory option at a minimum - if not standard. Maybe we can make this happen for the 08's at least - especially because these are off-the-shelf parts.

My guess is that when Honda designed the element they certainly considered how many speeds to put in the MT. Obviously if they wanted it to have a 6 speed they certainly could have accomplished it. You can bet they employ some excellent engineers who could have come up with a solution simialar to yours if they needed / wanted to.

Which makes me think there is a reason for making the E to a 5sp. Given the distinctly un-areodynamic desing of the E, maybe they wanted to limit the top speed by not offering a 6th gear.
 

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Green Machine said:
Which makes me think there is a reason for making the E to a 5sp. Given the distinctly un-areodynamic desing of the E, maybe they wanted to limit the top speed by not offering a 6th gear.
I don't think that makes any sense. Theoretical top speed is likely higher in 5th than 6th, and is almost certainly limited electronically, anyway. I'm sure the E runs out of power way before it runs out of gearing.
 

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ramblerdan said:
The E has an RPM limiter, so in normal conditions (level ground, no headwind) it should have a higher top speed in 6th than in 5th.
No, there is a speed limiter, too, Paul. Most (all?) US cars these day are limited to a top speed which does not exceed the speed rating of the OEM tires.

I strongly suspect that you will be unable to "go faster" in 6th, and my edu-guess is that it will run out of steam around 90 or so. The tall gearing takes away a lot of torque, which you need in order to push against the wind, and also moves RPM well away of the torque/HP peaks.

FWIW, I've had several cars where 5th was a loping "cruise" gear, and top speed was only achievable in 4th.
 

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ramblerdan said:
[Erroneous comment removed]

Have I missed the shift pattern with this mod? Is it

1-3-5
2-4-6-R

or something else?
That's the pattern!, I think it was in one of the other 6sp threads
 

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MikeQBF said:
No, there is a speed limiter, too, Paul. Most (all?) US cars these day are limited to a top speed which does not exceed the speed rating of the OEM tires.

I strongly suspect that you will be unable to "go faster" in 6th, and my edu-guess is that it will run out of steam around 90 or so. The tall gearing takes away a lot of torque, which you need in order to push against the wind, and also moves RPM well away of the torque/HP peaks.

FWIW, I've had several cars where 5th was a loping "cruise" gear, and top speed was only achievable in 4th.
You might be right MikeQBF but correct me if I'm wrong, isn't the limiter on the Element set at 109mph. If that's the case, and 109 is achievable now we'd be going from 5450rpm down to 4360rpm in 6th, still well within the peak torque zone. There might be a little left after that without the limiter.

Anyone with a 5-spd gotten up to 109? or is the limiter pointless, I've only seen 95 or so.
 

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rhurt said:
Reverse lock: There is a cam in the 5 speed that prevents you from moving the shift lever from 5th directly into reverse. This way when you downshift to 4th, you cannot mistakenly put it into reverse. Instead to shift from 5th to reverse you must pull the shift lever out of 5th, move it at least one space to the left, then back to the right and into reverse.
First of all Rhurt this is a very pioneering mod. Thanks for paving the way for others, as you took a huge gamble. I have ripped apart several Nissan SE-R trannies and repaired/modified them so I have no problem in tearing this tranny down and performing this mod myself. (I can't wait.)

So my question is, why can't we also take from the MDX or SI tranny the mechanism for reverse lockout (as you say the cam) which I would think is on the outside of the case...according to this http://www.slhondaparts.com/browse....ssions=KA&PartCatalogId=14SVA6&ViewParts=true

Looks like either part 16 or 17.

Otherwise it would seem hard to garantee a smooth up shift downward from 5th into 6th due to the spring the neutralizes the shift lever to the 3/4 gate. In other words you can PULL toward you safely when accessing 1-2, let the spring push you in the 3-4 shifts, and up until now PUSH over safely into 5 with a preventive down into reverse. After conversion I would have to make a conscious effort to make sure I push down into 6th and not push over too far into reverse.

Please advise.

Thanks
Thomas
 

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Thomas Reynolds said:
Looks like either part 16 or 17.
Both. Plus others, plus some wiring. Ric mentioned previously that the reverse lockout is a button, and this button activates a solenoid which releases the lockout cam. You're right, however, in that the lockout assembly appears to be all external, and it looks like it can be done after-the-fact.

Comparing the 6MT shifter assembly to the 5MT, referring to the drawing below you will need parts #'s: 1, 9, 16, 17, 18, 19, 23, 29 and 30.


Illustration courtesy http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org

Then inside you will need (obvious by now) the button for the shifter - and associated wiring - to energize the solenoid (#19) to release the lockout.

I'll continue to explore the interior parts and see if there's a way to replace the E's shift lever with either the Civic's or TSX's shifter-with-button. Whatever has to be done needs to be integrated with the shift lever, even if you just tape a trigger button of your own on the knob - otherwise shifting into reverse becomes a two-handed operation.
 

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Uh oh. No button. It just occurred to me that the reverse lockout has to be automatic. All you have to do is recognize that you are at zero MPH forward speed, and you energize the solenoid to release the cam. Any forward speed or a speed lower than some-low-number, don't release the cam.

It looks like I'm going to be spending some time looking at ECU wiring to see if there is a signal we might be able to use for this.
 

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Discussion Starter #60
worthywads said:
You might be right MikeQBF but correct me if I'm wrong, isn't the limiter on the Element set at 109mph. If that's the case, and 109 is achievable now we'd be going from 5450rpm down to 4360rpm in 6th, still well within the peak torque zone. There might be a little left after that without the limiter.

Anyone with a 5-spd gotten up to 109? or is the limiter pointless, I've only seen 95 or so.
Let me just chime in and say that she cooks along just fine at 90mph in 6th. I didn't push it beyond there but it seemed like the power was there to meet the speed limiter. I will say that lower in the power curve say around 2600rpm it is a little weak for prolonged uphill climbs, however on flat terrain there is no issue with acceleration.
 
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