Honda Element Owners Club banner

41 - 60 of 204 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #41
Pierre have you actually ordered these from Majestic?

If you look at the diagram it shows the old syle tumblers....not the new style tumblers. I checked out an 88 Civic on majestics site and came up with same part numbers. Majestic has made a mistake on the Element listing.

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=Civic&catcgry2=1988&catcgry3=4DR+DX&catcgry4=KL4AT&catcgry5=KEY+CYLINDER+KIT

I have verified that it's a mistake and they do not sell the tumblers for the E. They only sell a complete lock.

Pierre
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
removing door lock

Locksmith, thanks for the great instructions and pictures. It all went like clockwork. I found that slipping a straight awl under the bottom of the clip on the lock and then wiggling it under the clip allows the lock to come free. The clip stayed in place without falling out! Couldn't figure out where it had gone until I looked at the lock. I have had a problem putting the 10mm bolt back which holds the the bracket and the handle assembley on. This is the hidden bolt closest to the latch side of the door. I have an extension on the 10mm socket but I can't get the bolt started, Any tricks? Thanks again for the help
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #43
If you're talking about this one...



yeah... it can be tricky. Ummm...... did you try to get it started with your fingers first? The biggest problem is getting the handle and the bracket lined up with the hole all at the same time. You could also try putting a bit of black tape around the head of the bolt to help keep it lined up in the socket.

BTW, what happened with the locksmith. Did they replace with new or just remove/repair the bad ones.

Pierre
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
lock repair

I'll have to find a smaller hand to start that bolt. I took out the first wafer, it was too far gone. In the second pair I was able to smooth out the burrs. The third pair was missing a wafer! A few years ago I had the lock replaced on warantee so I guess who ever keyed the lock screwed up. I will take it up with the dealer. Thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Locksmith, thanks for this excellent description. I had to do this on my 2003 element tonight. I do not think I could have done this without your visual guide. My main problem is that my key is stuck in the lock, so I cannot pull the lock through from the inside. What should I do? I was thinking of cutting the key to enable me to pull the lock through the inside. Then maybe I could disassemble the lock and remove the broken key.
-Ricky
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #46 (Edited)
Locksmith, thanks for this excellent description. I had to do this on my 2003 element tonight. I do not think I could have done this without your visual guide. My main problem is that my key is stuck in the lock, so I cannot pull the lock through from the inside. What should I do? I was thinking of cutting the key to enable me to pull the lock through the inside. Then maybe I could disassemble the lock and remove the broken key.
-Ricky
Is the door handle assy still attached to the door? If so try to remove the tiny c-clip that holds the lock together (see pic). The c-clip, cam and spring will probably fall down into the door. At that point you should be able to separate all the pieces and take the handle assy off (with the key and innards of the lock still stuck). Take that somewhere safe to try to remove the key, the springs and wafers will go flying if you're not careful. And take pictures, I've noticed others with the same problem.

Let me know if that helps,
Pierre
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #47
Here's how it's supposed to be. I imagine you could make that pin out of a few different things, maybe a sewing needle. Whatever you use it should be stainless steel or chrome plated. If that's not possible, coat it with grease to keep it from rusting.

Pierre
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Hey Locksmith.

I've 2 problems that might give me a chance to do this twice :)

My passanger lock is startiing to stick a bit, so I'll try some WD40 and see if that fixes it.

My driver's door appears to have a new lock installed with completely different key from the rest of the car.

My question is: Can I remove the passanger lock and driver's lock, note the wafer numbers from the passanger lock, and replace the wafers in the driver's lock to match the passanger lock? Effectively rekeying by number. Sounds like it might take a half a day or so to do both, but it would be a fun puzzle day for sure!

How's the 200k coming?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #49
Absolutely, there's even a chance that the wafers on the drivers side (even though it's keyed differently) might be able to be re-arranged to match. It's a long shot but it could happen. If you're gonna go to all that trouble I'd rather see you replace all the wafers and be done with it. If you don't mind your pass door panel being off for a week or so, take that one out first, find out what numbers you need and I'll USPS 'em to you for $20. I've already done that for a guy out in LA (jets022) and it worked like a charm.

The 200k is right around the corner. My next oil change actually.

cheers
Pierre
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Excellent Pierre! 200k is quite a feat :)

I'm in agreement, might as well swap out everything since it's such a labor intensive preparation project.

Thanks for the wafer shipping option. I'll definitely take you up on that when I'm ready to pull the trigger.

I'm still a couple weeks out since I have a couple other mod's in progress I need to finish.

Kinda looking forward to really tearing into the E. I love the inner workings of doors and locks :)

Larkin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
I was the one that got the wafer thumbers from Pierre. I'm very grateful for his help. I spent almost two hours calling local locksmiths and found only one that would do it for $20 per cylinder. The other had higher prices or kept asking me if I was a locksmith and why I wanted those wafers. Do the repair asap, it is a good feeling to be able to unlock any door without trying several times.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Sorry for not posting the results of my lock problem. Pierre, thank you for all of the help and information that you put on this site. I had the same problem as everybody else. It was very difficult finding a locksmith that would sell me the wafers or even fix the lock for that matter. I ended up finding a place in Houston that replaced the wafers for me for $20. Not a bad price, I thought. Anyways, I have placed the link for the locksmith that fixed my lock for me in hopes that anyone in the Houston area that is having the door lock problem will have a much easier time getting the wafers replaced.
Cheers.

http://www.bllockandsafe.com/

....I almost forgot to add. I used a thick sewing needle to replace the lost pin. It did not work as planned because the lock cover does not swing in and out like it is supposed to. The cover just stays in the open position. Hopefully dirt and grime will not become a problem. I will keep this lock lubed with wd40 regularly now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Hey Locksmith,

So the guy I bought my E off back in Nov told me about this site for all sorts of help and I've browsed the mod section just to pass the time but never joined or posted, that is until now haha.

The instructions are great, but I'm too nervous for a DIY job, that and some of this stuff is just over my head. From what I've read/understand if I don't replace the wafers individually I'll have to replace the entire key system. Which would include ignition and all 3 locks (if I wanted 1 key for connivance... which I do haha). If I didn't replace all 3 I would have 1 key for the drivers side lock (which is what's currently muffed up on my E) and another key for the other door, hatch, and ignition. This would also be very expensive compared to replacing the wafers.

Is that correct?

If so, how would I explain to my mechanic for him to replace the individual wafers, as opposed to replacing all of it? (Just in case he did not understand where I was coming from)

Many Thanks,
KBed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,088 Posts
The mechanic will probably have a personal preference what is easiest. I think it depends most on experience. Sometimes, I am anal to a fault and want to find the exact reason something happened and not just replace a part because the book says so.

Rebuilding one lock might be more difficult but have very little parts involved. Replacing all the locks has less potential problems but a lot more parts and labor. Out of curiosity I checked hondaautomotiveparts.com and you can get the lock set for $225. If your mechanic can not get the wafers but is still willing to try to rebuild it let me know and I can get them to you.

cheers
Pierre
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Installing keyless entry will allow you to unlock the door with a remote (provided your power lock actuator is working) but will not fix the key working in the door lock. In other words, the power locks will still work even if the door lock does not.
Locksmith,
Thanks for your help.
How do I know if the power lock actuator is working?
When I push the power lock button, the lock tries to lock/unlock, though usually it doesn't make it. Does that mean the actuator is working?
I'm worried that I'll install the remote keyless entry, and then when I push the button, I'll get the same failure that I see when I try to use the power locks.
Thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,088 Posts
I fear you may have a double whammy. Pushing a button on a remote will be the same thing as pushing a button on the door, just from far away. Is the drivers door the only one that's intermittent? If it's the only one with a problem I would say you also have an actuator problem. However, fixing the power locks and installing remote entry may end up being the easier way out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Sorry, Locksmith, I have to admit I'm a bonehead.
I didn't realize that you need to pull the door handle to use the power locks when the door is open. I guess my power lock is working fine. Goes to show you that we Element owners have good taste in cars, but not all of us are so smart... :)
I guess it's just the driver's side door key/lock which is the problem. Are you still sending out replacement wafers for the DIY lock repair? Or do you recommend the switch to keyless entry?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #58
Sorry, Locksmith, I have to admit I'm a bonehead.
I didn't realize that you need to pull the door handle to use the power locks when the door is open. I guess my power lock is working fine. Goes to show you that we Element owners have good taste in cars, but not all of us are so smart... :)
I guess it's just the driver's side door key/lock which is the problem. Are you still sending out replacement wafers for the DIY lock repair? Or do you recommend the switch to keyless entry?

We all have our moments. :grin:

Yes I can still send them and I recommend both. Remotes are schweet but you should always have a backup when technology fails.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #59
Ok... so... I've have quite a few more problems on these 4 track ignitions and I've had about as much as I can take. These are turning out to be the most un-repairable locks in existence. I am officially recanting this thread and un-advising anyone to even bother trying to repair their locks. Replace with new only! From now on this is for informational purposes only, do not try this at home. To anyone who has wasted their time and effort removing, repairing and replacing these locks under my advice, I am truly sorry. These locks are crap and when they get worn out there's not much you can do about it.

Seriously, what I've learned is that when the original wafers have gotten to the point of not lining up on the key, so has the channel that held that wafer in place. Meaning that even if you put new wafers in the lock the hole they go in is bigger than it used to be so the brand new wafer is sloppy as hell from the get go. Every time I have tried to save someone some money and repair them I have only heard from them a few weeks or months later with the same problem. This wouldn't be so bad except for the price of new Honda locks. It's insane! I can only hope that as the demand begins to rise, so will the supply and the price will go down.

The most recent example is a 03 civic that I repaired on Oct 28th and I got a call from them today that they were stranded again, key wouldn't turn in ignition. List price for the ignition lock is $388.18... seriously?!? And if they want to maintain one key for all they're looking at $477.05 for the complete lock set. All the while I'm making keys for a '73 Lincoln Continental that has the original locks that all work perfectly and even if I had to replace them they'd cost ten or twenty bucks each... ugh.

I am not giving up on my Honda, it is still the greatest car I have every owned. These locks... not so much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
284 Posts
A valiant effort

I am officially recanting this thread and un-advising anyone to even bother trying to repair their locks. Replace with new only! To anyone who has wasted their time and effort removing, repairing and replacing these locks under my advice, I am truly sorry. These locks are crap and when they get worn out there's not much you can do about it.
It was a valiant effort, Pierre!

Very brave of you, and we really appreciated the insights of somebody in the trade.

Seems pretty obvious that somebody in the bean-counting department figured out that since most people are using remotes, the lock tumblers don't have to survive as many use-cycles - so we can save 3 cents per car by using crappier parts! Soichiro wept.
 
41 - 60 of 204 Posts
Top