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Well I got myself so drunk on friday night that yesturday was all recovery. So I'm gonna get on it today. I'm off to Radio Shack.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Well I got myself so drunk on friday night that yesturday was all recovery. So I'm gonna get on it today. I'm off to Radio Shack.
Good call, cutting into a car wiring harness isn't something one would want to do while impaired. :razz:
 

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So the shack didn't have the relays. unless I can use SPST auto relays I'm going online for them. Anyone know a good site?
 

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Discussion Starter #25
So the shack didn't have the relays. unless I can use SPST auto relays I'm going online for them. Anyone know a good site?
Relay #3 and Relay #4 can be SPST as long as you can find them with NORMALLY CLOSED CONTACTS - most all SPST relays have Normally Open Contacts.

Relay #5 must be SPDT because you are switching the headlight filament between +12v and ground.

You can get them as I posted in this message for $3.00 - not bad at all actually.
 

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I'm in the process of getting this done, and thought I'd share my approach. Note that the way I did it has made the project more expensive ($70-80 range) but there's no building circuit boards and no soldering inside the car (two of my least favorite activities)

I used SPDT relays and matching relay sockets from DigiKey to hold everything together. The sockets interlock and form a makeshift project box, and all I had to do was make the right connections between each terminal.

Picture 1: Relay sockets 1-4 with the main wires installed. Red is power, black is ground, and green connects each relay in sequence. The connector goes to the wire that runs to the hood.

Picture 2: the cable for C2 and C8 with the diodes. I'm using quick disconnects at each wire I have to mod so I don't have to solder under the dash, just crimp.

Picture 3: the completed under-dash module.
Picture 4: the completed under-hood module.
 

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Discussion Starter #28 (Edited)
Daytime Running Lights for the Honda Element SC

Daytime Running Lights for the Honda Element SC

The SC has an entirely different headlight circuit than the other Elements. The original modification will NOT work on the SC. It will work with every other Element (to date) though.

This post will allow you to modify the Honda Element SC to have Daytime Running Lights, DRL just like the other Elements. This modification will do basically the same as with the other Elements - turn on the High Beam Lights at a reduced voltage totally automatically. The same basic conditions exist in this mod as the other - if the parking brake is applied the lights go out - if one desires a switch can be placed between the V3 terminal and the #1 relay to completely disable the DRL function and revert the whole thing back to normal OEM function.

Please note, I do not own an Element SC, I have not done this modification to an Element SC; however, I assure you that this modification will work. If you have any questions about this mod please contact me and I will try and answer your concerns. Additionally, if you do this mod please make some pictures as this will make the whole thing easier to understand.

sc_headlights-small.jpg

The Modification

There are four wires that will be cut and relays inserted. Both wires for the high beam headlamps on each side will need to be cut as shown in this schematic.

sc_headlights-a.jpg

The red highlights show where the four relays need to be inserted in the engine compartment. A standard SPDT automotive relay like the ones here will work great, although you may want to look at the way drivestoclimb used the automotive relays in his mod. Just make sure you're using a sealed automotive relay with both normally open and normally closed contacts. They should have these terminals:

auto_relay_spdt.jpg

All four relays will have terminals #85 connected together and connected to a wire that will come from the cabin area. All relays will have terminal #86 connected to the chasis to form a good ground.

Because of the way the low beam headlights are wired, we need to totally isolate them from the high beams to keep them from being illuminated or even partially illuminated. I saw several methods of doing it, but6 chose this way because it seems to be a lot easier to do.

The four wires that need to be cut are:
Right side high beam lamp
  • Red wire (make sure you have the high beam light)
  • Red wire with Blue stripe
Left side high beam lamp
  • Red wire with Yellow stripe
  • Red wire with Blue Stripe
Left High Beam

Start with the left high beam lamp, cut both the Red wire with the Blue stripe and the Red wire with the Yellow stripe. These should be the only two wires going to the light.

Take the Red wire with the Yellow stripe that is coming from the headlight socket and connect it to the relay #5 (as shown on the schematic) terminal '30' (the common). Now, connect the Red wire with the Yellow stripe that is left to terminal # 87a of the same relay. On this same relay connect terminal #87 and #86 to ground (chassis).

Take the Red wire with the Blue stripe from the headlight socket and connect it to terminal #30 of relay #4. As before, connect the wire you just cut to terminal #87a. A single wire from terminal #87 of this relay will connect to terminal #87 of relay #3 on the right site. Connect terminal #86 to the chassis and connect #85 to the same wire connected to terminal #85 on relay #5.

Right High Beam

Now for the right high beam lamp. Again cut both wires going to the high beam lamp, the Red wire with Blue stripe and the Red wire. Please note that the low beam headlight also has a Red wire, do not confuse the two. The high beam is the only one we want to cut.

Take the Red wire that is coming from the headlight socket and connect it to the relay #2 (as shown on the schematic) terminal '30' (the common). Now, connect the Red wire that is left to terminal # 87a of the same relay. On this same relay connect terminal #87 to the power wire coming from the Under dash Fuse Relay Box's 'F" connector. (see simplified schematic)

Take the Red wire with the Blue stripe from the headlight socket and connect it to terminal #30 of relay #3. As before, connect the wire you just cut to terminal #87a. A single wire from terminal #87 of this relay will connect to terminal #87 of relay #4 on the left site. Connect terminal #86 to the chassis and connect #85 to the same wire connected to terminal #85 on the other relays.

The Interior Connections

The power for this mod is drawn from two locations on the Under Dash Fuse/Relay Box.

udfr_drl_sc.jpg

The power for the 'relays' is drawn from the "V" connector pin #3 while the power for the headlights themselves is drawn from "F" connector pin #11 (red wire with a Blue stripe). This is the same circuit that the Canadian DRL draws power for the headlights. This circuit also powers the TPMS Control unit and is fused through Fuse #3.

If desired, a switch can be placed between the V3 connector and Relay #1 that would give you the option of totally disabling the DRL circuit if desired. Other wise the high beam lights will come on when the SC's ignition is turned to the "RUN" position and the parking brake is NOT set. Any time the parking brake is set the DRL circuit is shut down.

As with the modification posted for the other models, the DRL mod does not interfere with the normal operation of the headlight circuit, any time the headlights are turn on - be it for the 'flash-to-pass" or low/high beam operation the DRL automatically disconnects from the OEM wiring and the headlights function as originally designed.

Four wires need to be connected to the Under Dash Fuse/Relay Box.

  • the parking brake circuit needs to be spliced into "C8" the Green wire with the Orange stripe.
  • the headlight switch needs to be spliced into "C2" the Blue wire with the red stripe.
  • the power source, option connector "V3" the middle pin in the connector.
  • the power source for the headlights - the Red wire with the Blue stripe "F11"


This simplified schematic shows just the wiring that this mod requires.

schematic_drl.jpg

As noted in the simplified diagram, two diodes (1N4004 or equivalent) are required for the circuit to operate properly. Make note that the anode of the diode needs to be oriented properly.

If someone does this mod, please make some pictures and post.

Any questions? :)

 

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Clever. I realized what you did when I remembered helping Dance figure out why he had some irregular light output. He had the same thing occuring with a blown headlight fuse (for one side) except both grounds were not on at the same time so as a result, (I believe) the high ground was causing a 25%/75% light output.

Anyways, I am going to try this DRL mod with a weird set up. I have an 06 EX wiring harness with an attached external wiring harness which uses the left headlight's 12v power source as a signal source for a relay drawing power off of the battery and grounded to the chassis. So, basically whenever the main headlight switch is on, the low beams are on regardless. The wand now acts as an on/off for the high beams. I would like to obtain the DRL's for the high beams. The problem I have right now is that I can not use the feedback method you used for the non-SC so easily. Well, at least that's what I am going to figure out now.


Keep in mind I could care less how much I hack this thing up. :grin: Just as long as everything works... My brain is fried being 3 in the morning but I'm still thinking.


It's possible to have a wire run from the red/blue wire (or what I have now is the red/yellow 12v source on the left headlight) to control a relay which will switch between two connections which intercepts on the red/blue high ground wire - the original high ground and a new one which connects to a new DRL ground. The new DRL ground will have a resistor integrated to produce the dim lighting effect and grounds to the chassis. Right now, that wire is serving as a signal source for a relay controlling power input from the battery to low beam HID's grounded to the chassis. So, one signal wire (red yellow most likely) will serve to control two separate relays. Have a wire run from the V connector which will provide the signal source for a third relay which turns on/off a 12v power source from the battery to the high beam bulbs. This means whenever the key is set to the right ignition setting, the high beam bulbs get power and whenever it's off, they don't. In effect, what this generates is the following effect in theory:

Always true:
Headlight switch on: HID's are on
Headlight switch off: HID's are off
Car ignition off: high beam bulbs have no power, always off


Car ignition on: (high beam bulbs have power)
--If headlight switch is off:
-------Wand is in low beam position: DRL light effect
-------Wand is in high beam position: DRL light effect
-------Wand is pulled towards driver: HID's and high beams are on full effect (bad side effect)
--If headlight switch is on:
-------Wand is in 'regular' position: HID's on, high beams off
-------Wand is in 'high beam' positon: HID's on, high beams on full effect
-------Wand is pulled towards driver: HID's on, high beams on full effect




If I theorized correctly (now being 3:40AM having been up since 8:30 AM the previous day) that should work and work well with near proper functioning. Unless I messed up reanalyzing what I wrote, that should work. Thoughts? Errors? With the current set up, its pretty much unavoidable with out major hackwork to prevent the HID's from coming on when you pull the wand towards you. I'll live with that since that's how it is set up now. I'll have to figure out what resistor to use and relays assuming that my resistor ground will work. It should given the nature of the original set up. Just have to wire the high beam ground wires in sequence to mimic the effect. Same goes for the power source. It's going to be an interesting new wiring harness... I think that's the best part: it can be made so it's completely removable with out altering the original set up! :D:D (I just realized this, final edit at 3:45.) Well, aside from running the single wire from the cabin which at that is technically not a permanent alteration if you don't damage anything in the process. So, yes it's completely removable with no negative side effects for future application. That's kind of nice to know. For whatever reason I can just swap out the DRL /HID harness for a regular 1 relay HID harness or no harness and just have regular halogen bulbs. Having options is nice but to me this will be permanent.

I'll need to come up with the proper wiring set up but this set up will work for anyone who has a non-SC who converted to an SC front end with out changing the wiring harness and wants high beam DRL's. More or less anyways depending on whether or not they grounded the low beams to the chassis.


Edit: added the updated picture.
 

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yipes complicated.

Damn that's complicated! Simple I just leave my fogs on all the time
 

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Ugh tell me about it. I don't know how I came up with this but then again, Fujiisan (greg) figured out how to hack up the OEM non-SC wiring harness to produce a much simpler working version and ended up finishing up the conclusion around the same time (3-4 in the morning). I'll have to make a picture diagram to make it a little more easily explained. Technically this could work for the non-SC E's as well but the fact that the bulb is ground switched won't make it possible... unless of course you manipulate the circuit to reverse everything. I'll come up with that too for anyone who may want to have a completely externally attached harness-based DRL unit if it's possible.

At least in theory it's possible... of course that's also assuming that the resistor ground will work.

Added a picture to the previous post to help explain what I was talking about.


Edit: So I was working it out in my head on my way to pick up my new bumper pieces and I believe it can in fact work on a wiring harness only. Their will have to be an extra relay integrated to simulate the full effect of the headlights. The H4 bulbs do not have the same filament on at the same time except for the 'flash-to-pass' function. I have read that some believe having both filaments on for extended periods of time will generate too much heat and therefore destroy the bulb. An extra relay will be added that will sever the low beam ground connection whenever the high beam ground circuit is switched on. As a result, the only thing which will differ in function is that the flash-to-pass function will only use the high beam filament instead of both. That may be problematic depending on the daytime brightness which will be effectively reduced by 50% theoretically. However, it does allow for a complete installation of DRL's with otherwise full functionality with out tampering the original harness. It will be similar to my theoretical harness for my 06 non-SC to dual bulb DRL circuit. The key thing is permanently grounding the low beam to the chassis rendering the low beam ground (once again) useless. This will use a relay to swap between the high ground and the DRL ground as well. Power will be activated by the V-connector and drawn from the battery terminal (which is basically how it works now).

Once I can confirm that the first proposed harness works, the second one can be done with out a doubt. As for the SC model, I'll work that out if there is a demand for it based upon what BH241 posted.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
quick question - you are talking about actual HID lamps? Not the OEM high beams in the SC, right?

If so, I think you have a problem. HID lamps work on a whole different principle than the "projector" lamps in the SC. I'm not so certain the concept would work as you think - but then I'm not using nor have access to HID setup to really evaluate it.
 

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Hmm? Well there are HID bulbs in the projectors. I am going to use the high beam bulbs (halogens) as the DRL lights. The two will be independent of each other.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Hmm? Well there are HID bulbs in the projectors. I am going to use the high beam bulbs (halogens) as the DRL lights. The two will be independent of each other.
Sorry, I must have misinterpreted your schematic. I thought you were using an OEM SC front end with an EX. -neither of which has HID lamps originally.

That said, I still think you would be better off placing the lights in a series configuration. It not only uses less parts, it's less wasteful of the limited power found in an automotive electrical system.

Regardless of the way you do it, you should provide adequate circuit protection (fuses) in the circuit.

To use the whole 'Flash-to-Pass' as intended by the OEM, just monitor the status of the Blue/Red wire - it goes low whenever the headlight relay(s) are on. Then just disable whatever modifications you have made as long as that condition exists. - The same situation exists for the light switch being turned on - so you can kill two birds with one stone.

As I've said in the past, there are a thousand ways to do something electrically, just because one person sees the 'easiest' way different than another it doesn't necessarily mean that is the 'best' way. It's almost an art form designing circuits. besides, electrons are basically lazy - they will always take the easy way out...
 

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Ah well it is the 06 EX OEM wiring harness that will have the attached circuit in the diagram. I plan on using 10 gauge wiring with a single 30A fuse on the 12v lead from the battery which will switch to 16 gauge for everything else.

Indeed. The set up I have is somewhat unique right now since I will be manipulating both the low and high beams. The lows just require a relay for the 20 second start up period (high current requirements) for the HID's. As for the high beam DRL's - I guess we'll see how it works out. I'm trying to simulate what you did by running current through all 4 filaments by adding a pair of resistors to simulate the bulbs therefore generating the same effect. One relay cuts off the power to the high beams and the other controls which ground is active generating the desired effect.

I'll let you know how it works out.


On a side but relevant note - I have a theoretical schematic for a completely removable DRL wiring harness that will not manipulate any of the original wiring but it is dependent on two unknown variables:

1. Whether or not the resistor ground will work (most likely will)
2. If the LED circuit on the left high ground wire will send a 12v source backwards through the wire to provide a signal source for a relay when connected at the plug source. According to the schematic, it should theoretically.

I'll test them out and if it holds true, I'll post a wiring diagram for that; non-SC models with H4 ground-switched headlight systems.
 

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To update this, no it is not possible as is. As it stands, a suitable signal needs to be discovered as there is no feedback from the LED light. The resistors do in fact work however. 1/2 problems solved.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
To update this, no it is not possible as is. As it stands, a suitable signal needs to be discovered as there is no feedback from the LED light. The resistors do in fact work however. 1/2 problems solved.
What 'exactly' isn't happening? The prints you posted should work, did you change something?

Give me a little more info on what's happening and what's not happening and maybe we can figure it out.
 

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To make the completely exterior DRL wire harness work, we need a 12v source for the high beams. Since the H4 system in the E is ground switched, there's no way to get the high beams to turn on with the circuit the way it is now. Unless there's something I missed, that's not possible with out going to great lengths to get it to work which defeats the entire purpose.

As for my non-SC to SC version, it's working great!
 

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Is there a simple way to make it so the lights will go off when you turn the car off, so you can leave the light switch "on" all the time if you want?

I had a Forester that did this. I don't know why rather than making the car beep at you if you leave the lights on, they don't just wire it so they turn off with the car?

Otherwise I'll give this mod a shot, seems pretty easy. And a big THANKS for all this info!
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Is there a simple way to make it so the lights will go off when you turn the car off, so you can leave the light switch "on" all the time if you want?

I had a Forester that did this. I don't know why rather than making the car beep at you if you leave the lights on, they don't just wire it so they turn off with the car?

Otherwise I'll give this mod a shot, seems pretty easy. And a big THANKS for all this info!
yes and no. The yes part, it could be modded to work that way - the no part, I have not done that.

The closest to that would be the DRL-lite as described in post 13 this mod turns the low beam headlights on when the ignition is in the RUN or 'II' position. It's a really quick and easy way to achieve DRL. This mod only turns the headlights on, not the parking or dash lights. There have been documented problems with trying to reset the MAINTENANCE REQUIRED indicator when the parking lights are on. So for that reason, I chose not to go that route. It has other drawbacks though that are explained in the post.
 
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