[Brandonsanfran]

I just got done replacing the Vtec Spool valve. Which included cleaning out the lower pain in the ass screen. As I've only had my Element for a couple of months I am guessing the Spool Valve has been on the edge of going out all along.
It accelerates harder and I don't feel the annoying hesitations or slight miss / skip at 60- 80.
Starting to like this rig more and more.

Can you verify all that you've done and is the P2646 still not showing up?

 

[Brandonsanfran]

Update to this issue? I am having very same problems.

Yes update please.

 

[Brandonsanfran]

P2646 Code, should this be a lawsuit?

Since there seems to be no specific fix for this. Can this be applied to a Lemon Law? If you had it fixed for good, let us know 1) what was all the steps and 2) cost to finally fix if it did fix or did you pass it on to a new owner, which eventually show up again.

Thanks,

06 Element owner

 

[zel]

I, too, had issues with my oil solenoid/ oil pressure switch. Actually replaced it twice. Error recurred shortly thereafter in each case. I discovered that the 2 wired connectors that are attached to the solenoid are NOT waterproof. On a hunch, I pulled the 2 connectors which I quickly discovered had moisture inside. Solution was to take some cotton swabs and clean the contacts on all 4 surfaces, take a hair dryer and dry them out as thoroughly as possible, then apply a liberal amount of dielectric grease around the base of the wired connectors, being careful not to apply any to the metal contacts themselves.
Putting the connectors back in place will force the grease to both the outside and inside surfaces sufficient to keep out any moisture. Since we had MAJOR rain here in SoCal last week, driving in this horrible rainstorm was a true test of my remedy. No more issues or codes for this solenoid. Hope this helps!!!

BobM

My fix was almost the same as above:

Got P2646, replaced whole assembly with new filter, weeks later (maybe longer?), problem resurfaced.

When taking out the original assembly, noticed corrosion/crud inside of the pressure sensor (the round one), didn't think too much of it. Checking out the newly installed one (also bad) showed the same corrosion/crud.

I took out the original assembly, blasted the sensor and plug with electronics cleaner (CRC band from Advance), and scrub/burnished the sensor and plug as best as I could, then apply copious die-electric grease (especially on the bottom of the sensor and around the inner wall of the sensor. No problem since.

 

[desinia]

Suggest you either search here for P2646 code or try googling it. The cause and fixes pop right up.

Not understanding your "lawsuit" question.

 

[babock]

Lemon law on a 11 year old car? How long has this been doing this?

 

[ramblerdan]

Threads merged. A thread-title search for keyword "2646" returns this thread. But since you previously posted here, Brandonsanfran, you already knew that—yet started another thread on the same topic anyway.

> there seems to be no specific fix for this
You mean aside from replacing VTEC components?

 

[hotelhonda]

This thread talks a lot about "cleaning the screen" Are there any videos that show a step by step on how to do so??

 

[butterblum]

FWIW, I had this code this weekend. I pulled off the solenoid assembly to check the strainer, which was totally clean. I put it back on and made sure the wires were firmly seated in the connectors. I then went for a drive and haven't had a problem since.
I did a valve adjustment two weeks ago, so my best guess is that I put too much tension on the oil pressure sensor wires, and for some reason, it took 2 weeks for the problem to manifest itself.
Check the connections before anything else.

 

[Locksmith]

Something we've been dealing with for two weeks now.

This may or may not help anyone but I just wanted to put this out there.

#12 needed a new motor and this is one of the ones that got a JDM from Orlando. Didn't take long for the P2647 code to come up and go into limp mode. It also had a Dorman Spool Valve that the VTEC oil pressure switch went bad and was pumping oil through the switch and out the plug. We assumed that was the reason for the code, same thing had happened on another Dorman. Replaced it with OEM and sent it on it's way. Code came back within an hour.

At that point, I'm going to go through the troubleshooting procedure in the factory manual. Referring to these two pages.

Step 10 is where I believe there's a typo or it's unclear. It doesn't specify to unplug the connector first but it says to measure voltage on the wire side of the female terminal. It shows the ground wire as blue/black. I unplugged it, turned the ignition on, tested pin 1 and sure enough got 12V. Ok cool, repair the open circuit to ground. G101 is the one on top right of the intake. Spliced a new wire and voila, no more voltage on pin 1. Back together, clear codes and test drive, P2646 the moment it hits 3k rpm.

I didn't have the oil pressure tester to go through the procedure for P2646 so we ordered one and waited. In the meantime Greg did some searching and found out that the Japanese K24 has a different intake advance cam. I don't know exactly what's different but the USA is stamped with RAA, the Japan one has RBB. Swapped that out and still P2646 but only under hard acceleration. Specifically shifting from 1st to 2nd gear going from 6k rpm to 4k rpm +/-.

Then my oil pressure tester arrives and everything checks out, what the hell? Back to the book again. Going through more of the system description and I look more closely at this.

Here it shows the blue/black wire as the one going to the ECM/PCM and the brown/yellow as the ground. On page 11-184 it said the ground was blue/black.

The VTEC oil pressure switch is closed at idle and low RPM so the 12V that the ECM is sending shorts to ground so the ECM knows it's at idle or low RPM. With pressure, the switch opens the circuit so the ECM knows to close the circuit for the VTEC Solenoid Valve. Following the directions on page 11-184, I made a permanent short to ground at the VTEC Oil Pressure Switch so the ECM never knows when there's pressure.

I said earlier I believe it's a typo or unclear because if I had tested it with the plug still on the Oil Pressure Switch I would not have seen 12V on my voltmeter. I would have tested the blue/black wire, the closed Oil Pressure Switch would have completed the circuit to ground and I would have gone to step 11. If I actually had an Element with P2647 with a true short in the REAL brown/yellow ground wire on page 11-34 it would have instructed me to make a permanent short to ground on the blue/black ECM wire.

Am I wrong?

 

[Locksmith]

I should add that after removing the permanent ground, that I installed, we took it out on a side road and got it up to 70mph under very hard acceleration and no more engine light. I believe it was the intake cam advance gear the entire time. I still believe the book is wrong.

 

[ramblerdan]

Great sleuthing, Locksmith.

 

[Locksmith]

I showed this to one of my employees who's a Honda fanatic/guru and he cleared it up for me a bit.

On page 11-184 step 10, the picture is correct. Female side (the plug) terminal 1 is the blue/black signal wire coming from the ECM. That circle with the underlined V stands for voltage source. In this case it's the ECM itself. The ground wire going from the voltage source is the ECM's ground, not the VTC Oil Pressure Switch ground.

While the book doesn't say to unplug and test, his first thought was yeah, you always test them unplugged. But after going through the wiring diagrams on the other pages he agrees that you will always see voltage on pin 1 if it's unplugged. It's just as easy to test for continuity to ground on pin 2 to find the short to ground that it's talking about. If the blue/black wire was tested while plugged in, you would get the correct result (long as step 8 was a yes). The authors of the book are assuming the tech should know the brown/yellow is the ground wire. And they're right.

 

[patrickjamesyu]

Hello everyone, new Element owner here!

So I purchased a 2003 Honda Element EX 5-speed manual. It has 135,000 miles, clean title.
Greater Los Angeles Area / San Gabriel Valley (California)

I did buy it with a few minor problems. Dash lights out, the door locks barely work with the key, and the AC not working. Other than that, the car exterior and interior is incredibly clean.

But after about 70 miles of ownership, the car went into limp mode, could not get RPM's above 3000 RPM. Code shows P1157 and P2647. The car passed California smog fine just days before these 2 codes popped up.

So I've cleaned "the gasket with the mesh screen". The easier to access one with the 3x10mm bolts. It really wasn't dirty / clogged at all, but I did it anyways since it was out of the car. Still the car is in limp mode.

Today I changed the engine oil and filter. The car is now running how it should! But after 4 miles, the limp mode came back. I limped around for 3.7 miles, parked and got a hair cut, 30 minutes later, the car is not in limp mode anymore.

This is all rather confusing. Sadly, I can't seem to understand what the problem exactly is. I'm pretty handy, but I'm not a mechanic by any means. Though, for all my cars I've been able to do everything my self with the help of internet research. After reading 28 pages in this thread, sadly it seems the possibilities are wildly sporadic. Some people it fixes with an oil change, for some cleaning the easy access screen, for others, replacing the entire assembly, and for some none of these options work. It almost seems like some folk who have replied in this thread never figured out the issue and got it fixed. It's like they started with some of the easier stuff, then never signed back on to report.

I own a socket set, screw driver set, torx, wrench, impact guns both battery and air, multimeter, soldering station, jack, stands, and OBDII scanner / reader. I have pretty basic tools and no specialty tools sadly.

I'd really like to FIX this. I've wanted the car since 8th grade (26 now) and REALLY hoping I didn't buy something that's too far gone.

The car in general seems okay. When it's not in limp mode, it seems to have good power.


Also is there a post with a list of part numbers? Some replies refer to a # number on a diagram, but many photos being so old have source links that are broken. Some of these parts are a bit confusing as it seems some people are calling the same thing different things, and calling different things the same thing. Is there a single post / guide on this rather than this broken up discussion? I can't seem to find much else.

 

[ramblerdan]

Assuming you have already cleaned or at least reseated the electrical connections, the first part on your list should probably be "VTEC spool valve assembly," p/n 15810-RAA-A03.

 

[patrickjamesyu]

Assuming you have already cleaned or at least reseated the electrical connections, the first part on your list should probably be "VTEC spool valve assembly," p/n 15810-RAA-A03.

I haven't done any further cleaning honestly, but I did reseat them since I unplugged them to get to the screen gasket.

I'll try cleaning them. I have some degreaser, and a contact cleaner that's not automotive specific, but I doubt it's much different. The contact cleaner I have is marketed towards the musician industry.

 

[patrickjamesyu]

So update: I decided to clean and degrease the entire engine bay just to have a slightly cleaner working environment and to notice any leaks etc.

The car is still in limp mode. It seems like it happens when the car has reached operating temperature. My first drive this morning, the car ran fine. For about 6 miles, then suddenly limp mode kicked in.

The two plugs / harnesses that hook up to the vtec spool valve, I hit with some brake clean. I figure it's so high powered, and higher powered than my contact cleaner, and I figure it would do a good job blasting and flushing anything built up in the plugs on both the spool valve assembly and the harnesses.

I let them dry fully, which is rather quick with brake clean, and plugged them in. That was before my first drive this morning.

I've ordered a new spool valve assembly.
I'm really hoping that's the fix

If it's not.. what can I further do? It seems odd to me that this issue is somewhat common, yet there's not a solid fix for it? Or maybe there is..
seems like some people have gone through the entire check list and still have issues.

If anyone has some words of advice, i'm absolutely listening with open ears

Thanks E Community


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[Rashinal]

Update

So i had my E in the shop for like 2 straight weeks having the mechanic check the wire harness to the Oil Pressure switch and all that. He said everything checked out. I had him change the oil with standard oil, as I usually use a synthetic blend. The light came on the day i drove it off the mechanic's lot (after he couldn't get it to come on the entire time he had it)... Then it went off after a few starts (as usual)... and stayed off for like 2 weeks...constant driving. then it came back on yesterday... I still have to check the oil and make sure it's not low (which it shouldn't be since I got it changed like 2 weeks ago and there are no leaks). Not much else to report, but the standard oil seemed to work better for a while... the Honda dealer keeps refusing to re-flash my ECM, as they all keep telling me that won't fix it (even though they haven't tried yet)... Plus I've had a Honda dealer diagnose it before and they gave me the old "I don't know what's wrong with it". They just know it loses oil pressure randomly which triggers the CEL. I hope to resolve this issue soon, as I have done EVERYTHING to it besides the re-flash and a new motor (which i am scared to do seeing that this issue is quite common). Anyone else have luck with a re-flash?? Thank you!

 

[ramblerdan]

I don't normally suggest throwing parts at a problem, but you could replace every external VTC component for a minuscule fraction of the cost of a new engine.

 

[patrickjamesyu]

Update. I got an aftermarket spool assembly and the car is now out of limp mode. I decided to cheap out.. I don't know why... I did some thorough research and it seemed to have some success stories so I decided to try it. Worked for me. I haven't put many miles on it yet but as of now it fixed it right up and instantly got it out of limp mode.




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